Open World Conference of Workers

In Defense of Trade Union Independence & Democratic Rights

[Note: The following interview with Tony Benn, longtime Labour Party Member of Parliament in Britain, was conducted by Jean-Pierre Barrois, an organizer for the International Liaison Committee for a Workers' International (ILC) in Britain.]


Question: You have endorsed the appeal for the Berlin Conference Against Deregulation, which will take place next February. Could you tell us why?

Tony Benn: The deregulation policies that are being pursued in response to the demands of global capital leave global capital free to extend its exploitation of the world's human and physical resources to the detriment of all of us.

Regulation by itself is not enough and public ownership has a critical role to play in the control of the resources by democratic means.

In 1848, The Economist published an article about the slave trade in which it said you could not possibly abolish the slave trade because there were so many unemployed Africans in Africa and such a demand for the plantations in America it should regulate the slave trade. When you hear it said in that way you realize that regulation is no substitute for clear policies against exploitation .

The deregulation of the electricity supply industry in California, which has been followed by power cuts, is an indication of one of the dangers.

Question: Among the endorsements received from every part of the world by the Conference Organizing Committee, it is to be noted that many rail unions and railworkers support the conference, linking of course the fight against privatization or for renationalization to the struggle against deregulation. You have endorsed Ann Cryer's call for the renationalization of Railtrack. Could you tell us more about the importance of this campaign in Britain and more broadly.

Tony Benn: It is interesting in Britain to notice that although no leaders of any political party are calling for the renationalization of the railways, between 70% and 80% of the public want this - and there is no doubt whatsoever that privatization of the railways has been a disaster and has also greatly diminished safety standards.

I recently introduced a petition to the House of Commons with nearly 20,000 signatures in which people all over the country had contributed their voices to this campaign, which is also being supported by the rail unions.

I think that the final abuse of privatization has come with the information that Railtrack -- which was privatized by the conservatives -- is now in effect bankrupt but is receiving large government subsidies, and these subsidies are being used to pay dividends to the shareholders of a bankrupt company.

Question: You have characterized New Labour as an alien force that should be fought against to preserve the Labour Party. In Germany, [former Minister of Finances] Oskar Lafontaine left the government a few months ago. He strongly opposed the reform of the pension system imposed by the Maastricht Treaty and enforced by [current German Chancellor] Schroeder. A debate is taking place in the socialist movement and the trade unions in various countries. What do you think of this debate?

Tony Benn: New Labour is a new political party, according to the Prime Minister - and I am not a member of it.

The Labour Party was set up well over 100 years ago to give political representation to working people and their families, who had been neglected and ignored by the old feudal and capitalist parties that operated during the 19th century.

The Labour Party was created to build a campaign for trade union rights, for the extension of the vote to men and to women, and for the democratic control of economic forces which are very largely outside the purview of parliamentary politics.

At the moment it would appear that the Social Democratic parties of the world are now the most ardent and passionate advocates of Global Capitalism, and therefore we have to find a new way to bring pressure to bear on the government.

New Labour was elected in 1997 because people wanted to get rid of the Conservatives. On the other hand, big business of the city of London and the mutinationals did not want to change and they thought New Labour was more likely to carry out the policy that Mrs. Thatcher had initiated than a divided Conservative Party with a weak leader.

Similarly in the year 2001, with the election going on, big business and the media proprietors are giving a great deal of support to New Labour for that reason.

One of the problems is that young people, in particular, who are passionately interested in peace and public ownership, and the public services and the environment and the proper treatment of old people and students, simply do not see the prospect of success through the parliamentary system.

Apathy, cynicism and despair can of course pave the way to fascism as we saw in Italy and Germany in the '20s and the '30s, and there is some evidence that the Conservatives in Britain are playing the race card in order to win support.

It is very important that we do reconnect the demand for social and political change to the democratic process to see that we do not have a repetition of the tragedies of the past.

I am optimistic about this, and I would like to see socialists and trade unionists discuss it very keenly and link with all those of the progressive forces that may not be aware of the history of the labor and socialist movements or of the connections between their issues and the progress of socialism.

All the very best for the Conference, and I hope we keep in touch.

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